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Post by repentantPrimogen on Jun 21, 2012 20:28:43 GMT -5
Fellow Knight, if I understand mechanics well enough, Your Aspect stands for Acceptance like mine means Rejection
I think that You have to accept the brutal ways of the Game
yet I also think that You should stay true to Your philosophy of life
a small Victory in large picture
but a Miracle on more mundane scale of Personal Excellence
I wish You luck
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Post by apianAnchorite on Jun 21, 2012 20:42:46 GMT -5
Yep! Paired aspects + same title, obv. = brofists, at least in my mind. Maybe what you need to to is reject your inner violence? IDK. And, honestly. I, uh. Since I started killing, well. I mean, you know how knights are, we're super awesome at it whether we want to be or not apparently, and we level super fast. My prince kept looking at me like I was amazing, it was so... I wanted to fight for her until I couldn't stand up anymore. YOU know. It feels GOOD. And, much as I know this sounds like dramallama on a forum of people who do this and mostly have done it a hell of a lot more than me, it's like... my hands are already so filthy it's not like I'll ever really be a good person ever again. If this is what I have to be, then so be it.How do you handle the whole knight thing? It isn't giving you any feels?
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Post by repentantPrimogen on Jun 21, 2012 20:55:54 GMT -5
it does give me "feels" and no You are not a dramatic mountainwoolbeast
I am fairly convinced You are right on the nature of my Quest
Strife can teach how to reject a feature a Player hates in herself
Drift can teach acceptance of a Players "bad" qualities
I think that our Quests are mirroring each other
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Post by ExtropianDreamer on Jun 21, 2012 21:16:17 GMT -5
It gets easier if you understand the difference between right and necessary, as well as the exact degree of sapience possessed by game constructs.
Violence can be justified in self-defence, though this does not make it right. It does not, when done in order to preserve your own life or that of another, make you any worse of a person. Using more violence than is strictly necessary, or using it where another option is available, is morally wrong. But when it comes down to the question of wther or not one should defend one's life and those of others, I must answer unequivocally 'Yes'. The consequences of not doing so are so much worse. Your particular stance may differ, though I encourage you to weigh all of the consequences.
Underlings - Animals have more of a mind. Folks have opened up the code and had a look, these guys are less complex than your average bug. No one should ever feel guilty about killing these guys, they're pretty much ambulatory targets. Seriously, they like, I dunno, animatronic dummies. They can fake being real, but close inspection reveals as nothing more than props.
Consorts - On the borderline between animalistic and truly self-aware, best I can tell. Whether they count as people can be debated, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. Best to avoid killing them if you have to, and fortunately the game never requires you to do so, to my knowledge.
Carapacians - Self-aware, most likely. I'd count them as people, and thus avoid killing them. Yes, this applies to the King, which unfortunately means every session requires at least one incidence of murder to win.
Denizens - Undeniably self-aware. But they don't actually die when killed. Instead of dying, their conciousness moves on to another session. Despite how shitty it makes you feel, killing your Denizen does not make you a murderer.
The only self-aware entity that you have to properly kill is the Black King, and that most definitely counts as self-defence. Underlings are non-sentient, and Denizens do not truly die, but whether to kill the Black King is a valid question. Considering that he would kill not only yourself, but your fellow players, the answer, to me, is obvious. One life for four (or more) is a regrettable necessity, but is ultimately the least horrible of the available options.
Hopefully some of this helps. If you wish to discuss this more, I may be able to offer advice on the IRC. Be warned, I may get a bit wordy when talking about philosophy and comparative ethics and morals.
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Post by societalFlame on Jun 21, 2012 21:23:03 GMT -5
All thhat text just forr someone unwilling to wet thheirr teethh? You don't even need hhalf of thhat.
Thhe best you can do forr thhat kind of rreluctance is to thhrow yourrself into battle until you arre numb to it. Hhave yourr frriend enforrce it if you hhave to.
Rrememberr, you hhave a duty. Do not hhesitate to perrforrm it.
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Post by musicalDecay on Jun 21, 2012 21:47:17 GMT -5
As much as I'd love to help you will this. I am not very good use to a knight in a predicament like this. I'm currently a mage so that class can't really help without being cryptic, and the only other class I have good knowledge of is waste. The best advice I could give you with that would be the opposite of what you really need. really sorry. But hey! If you ever need help with completely messing shit up, I'm always willing to lend my knowledge. Good luck with you're predicament.
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Post by ExtropianDreamer on Jun 21, 2012 21:50:44 GMT -5
All thhat text just forr someone unwilling to wet thheirr teethh? You don't even need hhalf of thhat.
Thhe best you can do forr thhat kind of rreluctance is to thhrow yourrself into battle until you arre numb to it. Hhave yourr frriend enforrce it if you hhave to.
Rrememberr, you hhave a duty. Do not hhesitate to perrforrm it. That approach is a terrible, terrible idea. The sort of psyche it cultivates has numerous problems, not just in Sburb but in life in general - and make no mistake, the problems it creates in dealing with the more emotional and mental challenges offered by Sburbs makes it a terrible course of action on a purely practical level. I have really had enough of people pushing that soldier mentality on others, and am quite frankly sick of the complete lack of understanding it demonstrates of both human psychology and comparative morality. Just because we are forced into these circumstances, does not mean that questions of morality and ethics should be ignored, though we must always acknowledge the consequences to our decisions.
Incidentally, no one actually has any inherent duty to violence here (that's a lower-case 'd' here, to distinguish from the game term). They are in no way beholden to any motivation for playing this game beyond that of self-preservation or assisting your co-players. The choice to inflict violence upon another is one that cannot be forced upon oneself, such is it's scope. Morally and ethically, it is always acceptable, though not necessarily optimal, to choose otherwise if you deem the act worse than the consequences. That I personally consider the consequences worse does not in any way imply or enforce that others are required to make the same judgement. AA is, in fact, asking a perfectly valid question for which I applaud him.
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Post by musicalDecay on Jun 21, 2012 22:02:59 GMT -5
to extropianDreamer: although I myself am more of an eye for an eye person. That should be copy pasted with it's own post on the help page for people with this problem. up the echeladder you go for wisdom.
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Post by societalFlame on Jun 21, 2012 22:03:28 GMT -5
[Rrangoon warrning.]
My apologies, moderratorr. Considerr me rrebuked. Hhoweverr, I must mention thhat I in fact do not hhave an underrstanding of hhuman psychhology and comparrative morrality. All I can go on arre my own experriences, whhichh in thhis case would appearr to be inadequate.
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Post by ExtropianDreamer on Jun 21, 2012 22:10:07 GMT -5
[Rrangoon warrning.]
My apologies, moderratorr. Considerr me rrebuked. Hhoweverr, I must mention thhat I in fact do not hhave an underrstanding of hhuman psychhology and comparrative morrality. All I can go on arre my own experriences, whhichh in thhis case would appearr to be inadequate. It is fine. And please, ignore the moderator thing unless I'm talking about forum rules - it should have no bearing on topics of this nature.
I should probably apologise too. That particularly line of thought is something I've had to deal with previously, both in Sburb and before, and it is something of a sore spot for me, having seen for myself the negative consequences that can result. Thus, I was likely overly aggressive in my rebuke. My sincerest apologies for that.
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Post by musicalDecay on Jun 21, 2012 22:12:01 GMT -5
Okay. someone one else can give you the long version. but the just of it is that for humans, killing is really bad. you kill someone, it mentally scars you for life. That's why so many people have mental breakdowns in sbrub. because eventually you'll have to kill a PK or something and it will weigh on you like a ton of bricks. that's about the just of it. we are really not a killing without a conscious race, so troll culture seems pretty brutal to us. keep that in mind. I've seen my fare share of trolls trying to fix these types of problems, doesn't usually end well.
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Post by apianAnchorite on Jun 22, 2012 12:04:49 GMT -5
Thanks, you guys. Sorry for disappearing last night. We had some...stuff come up. :/ @rp: If you ever want to talk, knight to knight or whatever, about this kind of fighting stuff, send me a PM, yeah? I mean, I'm not as together about it as some of the awesome vets on the board so IDK whether my advice would be worth two hanks of wool, but I'm always happy to listen. @ed: seconding the call for this advice to have its own post in the advice section, because it is awesome. Especially the part about relative sentience is comforting to me. I think, for me, it comes down to "Yes, it sucks and is (and probably always will be) outside your acceptable morality; yes, you also have to do it and damn well WILL do it." So, yeah. I think I'm ok with becoming a bad person if that's what it takes to keep my friends alive and safe. I also think I may need to figure out how this IRC thing works. ;D @sf: /Thhe best you can do forr thhat kind of rreluctance is to thhrow yourrself into battle until you arre numb to it./ This is pretty much what I'm doing, actually. Our session's Prince of Mind kind of set things up so it was either a)fight or b)watch her get her ass handed to her all alone by the truly insane number of mobs she kept pulling. It was super effective.And holy cow, this was apparently me taking up the whole freaking thread! How are YOU guys?
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Post by genesisArtificer on Jun 22, 2012 15:24:26 GMT -5
Well, I think that a person that has a problem can take over the thread, cause its in it purpose.
It is very normal for Knights or Pages to be pacifists. Sburb is a dick, but that is probably this boards motto.
Good Luck on your quest ;]
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Post by musicalDecay on Jun 22, 2012 15:31:29 GMT -5
hey hey hey, don't worry about it. We deal with problems one at a time. I needed a quick cry on and you needed some good moral support. don't worry about it, you did not take up the whole thread. It was a pleasure to help you anyways. never even knew this was a problem people had, so I found out some interesting things to.
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Post by wingedWatcher on Jun 23, 2012 15:53:14 GMT -5
I was doing the second session stop pretty hard there for a while. But then I came here and someone told me that giving up and crying is pretty much what this game is DESIGNED to make you do, and even if I'm not okay, really, I'm not curled in some losers house staring at the wall anymore either. Which is pretty fucking amazing.
I have a lot of feelings about this forum right now.
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