Will you people please learn how to think

[spacetimeCounselor]

Ohhhhh dearest me. I figured this IRC log needed to be shared, but it's not especially relevant to my main session log and also I haven't posted the BIG CLIFFHANGER REVEAL there yet so I'm starting a new thread. The subject: People being unreceptive to rational thought and blaming deviant behavior on demonic possession. Way to go, thousands of years of human development. Or, uh, troll development.

Gonna highlight my own words in reg'lr blue and leave everyone else black because i'm super legitimately egocentric and also no way am I formatting this whole thing exhaustively.

23:43 spacetimeCounselor the answer to every "why" question from here on out is literally going to have to be "just because"
23:43 spacetimeCounselor on account of the time loop generating information from nowhere
23:43 stanzicApparati That's a stupid answer, though.
23:44 stanzicApparati And the time loop doesn't pull information from nowhere!
23:44 stanzicApparati It pulls it from the f uture!
23:44 spacetimeCounselor seriously i'm pretty sure sburb isn't turing-equivalent
23:44 spacetimeCounselor do you know anything about decision theory
23:44 spacetimeCounselor a stable time loop doesn't have inputs
23:44 stanzicApparati And then you complete the loop so that -- not really, no?
23:44 spacetimeCounselor it has events that happen as effects of their own causes
23:45 stanzicApparati Look, most of my schoolfeeding was "this is how not to get beaten up while you strife"
23:45 spacetimeCounselor like if i were to make any choice outside of the stable loop, it would no longer be a stable loop
23:45 stanzicApparati Yeah, that's how half of all time-travel /works/!
23:45 stanzicApparati Seriously, talk to your Seer about this.
23:45 stanzicApparati She'll know what I'm talking about.
23:45 spacetimeCounselor okay listen
23:45 spacetimeCounselor assume i have a time machine
23:46 spacetimeCounselor and a piece of paper appears in midair with a number on it
23:46 spacetimeCounselor like let's say twelve
23:46 spacetimeCounselor and i take that paper, write down the number
23:46 spacetimeCounselor and then send that new paper with the same number back in time
23:46 spacetimeCounselor to become the old paper
23:46 stanzicApparati Yes?
23:46 spacetimeCounselor the only reason i write "twelve" is because the paper said it, right
23:46 stanzicApparati ...and?
23:46 spacetimeCounselor so where'd the number twelve come from
23:46 spacetimeCounselor why not six
23:47 spacetimeCounselor or fifty-two
23:47 stanzicApparati Because you didn't /write/ six or fifty-two!
23:47 stanzicApparati Seriously, when you roll Time, this will make sense.
23:47 spacetimeCounselor i only wrote twelve because it was on the paper that appeared out of nowhere that said twelve on it
23:47 stanzicApparati Swear to god.
23:47 stanzicApparati It'll make perfect sense.
23:47 spacetimeCounselor there isn't a cause for the effect "twelve"
23:47 stanzicApparati Is too.
23:47 spacetimeCounselor twelve just happens to be
23:48 stanzicApparati It's called "you already did it"
23:48 spacetimeCounselor because the time loop says so
23:48 stanzicApparati Yes, see?
23:48 *** societalFlame joined #ultimatereward
23:48 spacetimeCounselor which means that sburb is somehow generating that information
23:48 spacetimeCounselor why did the "twelve" time loop happen, and not the "fifty-two" time loop
23:48 ghoulishCarnage There is no beginning and there is no end. It is a circle.
23:49 spacetimeCounselor that isn't how cause and effect work
23:49 stanzicApparati Totally is. You are the cause and you were the effect.
23:49 spacetimeCounselor no i'm not- twelve wasn't a decision i made
23:49 stanzicApparati Is.
23:49 spacetimeCounselor twelve is just a piece of paper that literally appeared out of thin air
23:49 ghoulishCarnage Yes it was.
23:49 stanzicApparati You made the decision not to become doomed!
23:49 stanzicApparati And then completed the loop.
23:50 stanzicApparati See? Perfect sense.
23:50 spacetimeCounselor that's not a decision, that's avoiding a logical impossibility
23:50 spacetimeCounselor doomed timelines decay because they're IMPOSSIBLE
23:50 stanzicApparati Same thing.
23:51 tenaciousTheseus Yup
23:51 spacetimeCounselor if i wrote "nine" instead of "twelve" then the piece of paper that said "twelve" literally came from nowhere
23:51 stanzicApparati Seriously, you're going to roll Time sooner or later, and then this will make complete sense.
23:51 spacetimeCounselor it really won't
23:51 stanzicApparati And then you become doomed.
23:51 stanzicApparati And die in the grossest, weirdest manner SBURB can find.
23:51 stanzicApparati Totally will.
23:51 spacetimeCounselor exactly- sburb is a machine enforcing certain loops over others
23:52 stanzicApparati Once you get in tune with the Beat, it all makes sense.
23:52 spacetimeCounselor why wouldn't my writing down "nine" cause it to say "nine"
23:52 spacetimeCounselor what happens to the timeline in which i send "nine" back in time
23:52 ghoulishCarnage Because it already happened
23:52 tenaciousTheseus Because that would be a logic break
23:52 stanzicApparati Because you wrote "twelve".
23:52 tenaciousTheseus It would become a doomed timeline
23:52 ghoulishCarnage Thus doomed timeline.
23:52 stanzicApparati So you can't do something that's different from what already happened.
23:53 spacetimeCounselor "doomed timeline" is not an answer, it's a curiosity stopper, an intellectual stop sign
23:53 spacetimeCounselor it doesn't explain where the twelve came from
23:53 stanzicApparati It came from you.
23:53 stanzicApparati Duh.
23:53 ghoulishCarnage It has no origin and it has no end
23:53 ghoulishCarnage It is like a circle.
23:53 spacetimeCounselor what if it weren't something i wrote down- what if it was a hunk of metal shaped like the number twelve
23:53 spacetimeCounselor and i sent that back in time
23:53 spacetimeCounselor disregarding loop material decay because not relevant to the example
23:53 stanzicApparati You are the cause of the effect you see.
23:53 tenaciousTheseus Same thing
23:53 ghoulishCarnage Though if you into alchemy then think of Ouroboros
23:53 spacetimeCounselor where did the metal come from
23:53 spacetimeCounselor WHERE
23:53 tenaciousTheseus Anyways, you can't argue this thing
23:54 tenaciousTheseus It happens
23:54 stanzicApparati Then you have to make a hunk of metal shaped like a twelve.
23:54 spacetimeCounselor the metal just appeared out of nowhere
23:54 tenaciousTheseus Logically or not
23:54 spacetimeCounselor i didn't make it in this scenario- it just showed up, and i did nothing but send it back
23:54 *** lucidChthonia joined #ultimatereward
23:54 spacetimeCounselor there isn't any reason for the metal to show up- why did the timeline happen in the first place
23:54 stanzicApparati shrugs
23:54 tenaciousTheseus Nope
23:54 spacetimeCounselor the point i'm making is that "twelve" had to come from somewhere
23:55 tenaciousTheseus But it happens anyways
23:55 *** Ishtadaal quit (Quit: www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
23:55 spacetimeCounselor exactly, i'm not saying it doesn't happen
23:55 spacetimeCounselor it's experimentally verifiable that a stable loop occurs
23:55 spacetimeCounselor i'm saying that the information has no source
23:55 stanzicApparati So?
23:55 spacetimeCounselor or that the source is externally provided
23:55 spacetimeCounselor that is, by sburb itself
23:55 stanzicApparati Dude, if you want 'has no source', where does SBURB itself come from?
23:56 stanzicApparati Seriously, there are better things to be pulling your hair out over.
23:56 spacetimeCounselor that's an actual mystery that we need to actually solve by investigating it and learning things
23:56 tenaciousTheseus Isn't that the best question
23:56 tenaciousTheseus No, it isn't
23:56 tenaciousTheseus It'll drive you mad
23:56 spacetimeCounselor that is
23:56 tenaciousTheseus Because it's illogical and yet it still happens
23:56 spacetimeCounselor that is an epistemologically unjustifiable position
23:56 societalFlame Whherre did all thhese time questions come frrom?
23:56 stanzicApparati Prince of Law doesn't get Time.
23:57 ghoulishCarnage Someone doesn't get Time Travel
23:57 societalFlame Thhey arre not hhelping my hheadachhe.
23:57 stanzicApparati Also, hi, socfla.
23:57 stanzicApparati You doing okay?
23:57 spacetimeCounselor if we never figure out where this game came from, we'll never understand it- we won't be able to destroy it
23:57 societalFlame I woke up withh chhipped hhorrns and a blinding hheadachhe.
23:57 societalFlame Thhat is not okay.
23:57 societalFlame You do not want to destrroy thhe game.
23:57 societalFlame You arre /in/ it.
23:58 stanzicApparati No breaking the thing that's carrying you.
23:58 spacetimeCounselor only temporarily
23:58 stanzicApparati That's corruption-takl.
23:58 stanzicApparati *talk
23:58 spacetimeCounselor there has to be an out
23:58 ghoulishCarnage No you sound like you are being possessed,
23:58 spacetimeCounselor holy shit is elementary reasoning posession now
23:58 stanzicApparati Go get a hug or soemething, dude.
23:58 stanzicApparati *something
23:58 stanzicApparati Only possessed people talk like that.
23:59 spacetimeCounselor no
23:59 stanzicApparati Also, stay away from the Angels, they've gotten smarter and more stalker-y.
23:59 stanzicApparati Don't go down there alone.
23:59 spacetimeCounselor listen dude you're out of your mind
23:59 stanzicApparati Says the guy who's talking about breaking the game.
23:59 spacetimeCounselor you're talking like sburb is god- a magical, unknowable first cause of everything that's inherently mysterious
23:59 spacetimeCounselor listen
23:59 stanzicApparati Look
23:59 spacetimeCounselor there is NO SUCH THING as a mysterious answer
23:59 stanzicApparati we had -- yes there is
00:00 spacetimeCounselor there are mysterious questions, because mystery is a state of our brains and what they know
00:00 stanzicApparati also, we had a horrorterror come in and basically have tea with us and do a Q&A.
00:00 spacetimeCounselor if it's mysterious, it's not an answer
00:00 spacetimeCounselor or rather
00:00 stanzicApparati If it's mysterious, you haven't figured out the answer.
00:00 societalFlame If you trry to take answerrs frrom thhe game, you die messily.
00:00 spacetimeCounselor if there is still mystery, than it is because it hasn't been answered
00:00 societalFlame Betterr to surrvive.
00:00 stanzicApparati Dude, Mage of Time. Mystery and cryptic are what I *do*
00:00 tenaciousTheseus Because anyone who tries goes insane and dies
00:01 ghoulishCarnage I like breathing thank you very much.
00:01 stanzicApparati Seriously, everyone who's tried 'breaking' the game or hacking it to make it 'fair'?
00:01 stanzicApparati Dead.
00:01 spacetimeCounselor the map- our mental models of reality, what we KNOW- is not the same thing is reality, the actual territory that explicitly exists that we see
00:01 societalFlame Whhat does thhat hhave to do withh game-brreaking?
00:01 spacetimeCounselor what would the properties of something "mysterious" be
00:01 stanzicApparati Wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff
00:01 stanzicApparati Also, me.
00:02 stanzicApparati I am totes mysterious.
00:02 spacetimeCounselor mystery isn't a property a thing can have, there's no arrangement of quarks that corresponds to unknowableness
00:02 stanzicApparati ...
00:02 spacetimeCounselor mystery is a description of what people don't know
00:02 tenaciousTheseus There's some things we just aren't meant to know
00:02 tenaciousTheseus Because we would go mad from the revelation
00:02 stanzicApparati Okay there is no way you're this frustrating just by accident.
00:02 spacetimeCounselor by labeling something mysterious, you can't make any verifiable predictions about its behavior
00:03 spacetimeCounselor this is basic fucking reductionism not insane lovecraft babbling
00:03 stanzicApparati No, but you can go "doing this drives people into gibbering madness, let's not do that"
00:03 societalFlame A verry verrifiable prrediction is thhat poking into the game's worrkings is deadly.
00:03 stanzicApparati Yeah, dude.
00:03 stanzicApparati We have /horrorterrors/
00:03 stanzicApparati One of them had /tea/ with us.
00:03 stanzicApparati In the chatroom.
00:03 ghoulishCarnage Oh really?
00:03 stanzicApparati Yes.
00:04 ghoulishCarnage Missed that. Pities.
00:04 stanzicApparati Gloaug.
00:04 ghoulishCarnage I would've liked to enjoy some tea with a horror terror
00:04 stanzicApparati Also got an angelkid showing up at the same time.
00:04 ghoulishCarnage An interesting experience it would've bene
00:04 ghoulishCarnage *been
00:04 tenaciousTheseus Well
00:04 tenaciousTheseus There wasn't any tea per se
00:04 tenaciousTheseus There was cake
00:04 societalFlame Ohh, Angels. Thhey arre a pain.
00:04 stanzicApparati There was! : D
00:04 stanzicApparati It was good cake.
00:04 tenaciousTheseus Balspe launched one in the furthest ring as well
00:04 spacetimeCounselor from all the evidence i've seen, corruption is a phenomenon caused by the game rather than by some property or action of the horrorterrors or angels themselves
00:04 spacetimeCounselor just look at what corruption IS
00:04 stanzicApparati No, mislul did that
00:04 stanzicApparati what
00:04 stanzicApparati what
00:04 ghoulishCarnage ....
00:05 tenaciousTheseus No, that's not right
00:05 tenaciousTheseus I've been corrupted before, and it was definitely the Angels at work
00:05 stanzicApparati And you don't just start up and speaking horrorterror
00:05 stanzicApparati They have to get all molest-y with the tentacles.
00:06 societalFlame Whhichh is equally a pain.
00:06 spacetimeCounselor so you think that there's a bunch of space tentacle monsters that SOMEHOW cause your incredibly complicated meat computer inside your skull to follow certain structured thought patterns, passively, without any detectable physical cause
00:06 tenaciousTheseus Yup
00:06 ghoulishCarnage Pretty much
00:06 tenaciousTheseus They're really powerful, dude
00:06 societalFlame Hhow many sessions hhave you, chhild?
00:06 spacetimeCounselor and also, these thought patterns are equal and opposite to those caused by a bunch of completely different monsters underneath your planet
00:06 tenaciousTheseus This is his first
00:06 tenaciousTheseus Yup
00:07 stanzicApparati Dude, we talked to gloaug.
00:07 ghoulishCarnage Explains. Though I would like to note, don't most people get it the first time?
00:07 spacetimeCounselor "powerful" isn't a description of ability- you're using it in this case equivalently with "magic"
00:07 tenaciousTheseus Well
00:07 stanzicApparati There's apparently this whole deal between the Angels and the Others and Skaia, but he wouldn't tell us wtf it is.
00:07 tenaciousTheseus Yeah
00:07 spacetimeCounselor which i might remind you isn't real
00:07 tenaciousTheseus Magic would be a thing
00:07 tenaciousTheseus really?
00:07 tenaciousTheseus Are you sure?
00:07 stanzicApparati You missed the bit where he said that?
00:08 stanzicApparati The whole contract or whatever, between the three?
00:08 spacetimeCounselor magic isn't a Thing, it's not a substance or a cause or anything, it's just a word people say to mean "I don't know how this works".
00:08 stanzicApparati And yeah, magic? Definitely a thing.
00:08 tenaciousTheseus He wasn't here then
00:08 tenaciousTheseus Okay then
00:08 stanzicApparati My needlewands say it is a thing.
00:08 societalFlame I am verry good at worrking the Underrworrld. If you do not follow a set of arrbitrrarry rrules, you /will/ be attacked by Angels and you /will/ gain corrrruption.
00:08 tenaciousTheseus In that case, it's magic
00:09 spacetimeCounselor look sburb is obviously an incredibly complicated system that we don't fully understand, and its workings have the /appearance/ of defying physical laws, but it's not MAGIC because MAGIC isn't an explanation for a thing, it's a placeholder for ignorance
00:09 stanzicApparati (Also Shitty Toy Wand + Needlekind = Needlewands. Best use of five minutes, a stick, and some arts and crafts for wrigglers bullshit.)
00:09 stanzicApparati ...
00:09 stanzicApparati Dude.
00:09 ghoulishCarnage (.... Trying that now.)
00:09 stanzicApparati *no* way you are this irritatingly stubborn just on accident
00:10 ghoulishCarnage Telling you, Others.
00:10 stanzicApparati I'm p. sure the game is alive, yeah.
00:10 societalFlame Thhings violate everry known law of phhysics and you still claim thhey follow science?
00:10 stanzicApparati Dunno about self-aware, though.
00:10 spacetimeCounselor things don't "follow" science, science is a process for gaining knowledge
00:10 *** Zuki joined #ultimatereward
00:11 societalFlame Parrt of science is knowing whhen to stop withh yourr currrrent thheorry.
00:11 spacetimeCounselor that's not actually a part of science!
00:11 stanzicApparati Doesn't science also sometimes go "okay, there's no way to find out more without unbelievable damage" and then drop it?
00:11 stanzicApparati I am quite sure this is a thing science does!
00:12 societalFlame It depends on hhow morral you want to be.
00:12 spacetimeCounselor "science" doesn't say that, people who are doing science say "okay, there are verifiable negative consequences to our current experimental procedure, we should alter our testing plan or alternatively, /stop doing science/"
00:13 *** razedDilettante joined #ultimatereward
00:13 societalFlame Semantics.
00:13 spacetimeCounselor you know that the most irritating thing in the world is
00:13 spacetimeCounselor (don't say me)
00:13 tenaciousTheseus Wait
00:13 stanzicApparati (totally you)
00:13 tenaciousTheseus Razdil
00:13 tenaciousTheseus You're alive?!
00:13 stanzicApparati !!!
00:13 stanzicApparati Razdil!
00:13 stanzicApparati Dude!
00:13 specificNihilism ((NOT HERE))
00:13 societalFlame Someone whho trries to pick at semantics in an othherwise engaging arrgument?
00:14 stanzicApparati ((Aww)
00:14 specificNihilism ((I'm not at least he migh tbe))
00:14 spacetimeCounselor the most irritating thing in the world is, when there is an argument over the MEANING OF A WORD, and people dismiss an argument by saying "semantics"
00:14 *** draconianContempt joined #ultimatereward
00:14 spacetimeCounselor when meaning is exactly what's being arguied
00:14 spacetimeCounselor *argued
00:14 razedDilettante Oh hey yall
00:14 stanzicApparati Dude, the most irritating thing in the world is someone not getting that they're talking about a thing that /cannot/ be done!
00:14 razedDilettante That was NUTS haha
00:14 societalFlame Thhe arrgument was neverr about thhe meaning of thhe worrld. It was about whhy trrying to brreak the game is a terrrrible idea.
00:14 tenaciousTheseus What the fuck
00:14 tenaciousTheseus Do not do that again
00:14 stanzicApparati Because people have tried it and gone stark-raving gibbering crazy
00:15 spacetimeCounselor what are you saying can't be done
00:15 spacetimeCounselor what
00:15 draconianContempt Hey, whoever is blackflirting with my moirail: She's taken so back off.
00:15 stanzicApparati 'Breaking the game', talking with Others or Angels without consequences, figuring -- augh, Toni
00:15 stanzicApparati I am not even yet
00:15 tenaciousTheseus That is not a thing that is happening
00:15 stanzicApparati shoosh
00:15 societalFlame Whho is blackflirrting?
00:15 tenaciousTheseus No one
00:16 spacetimeCounselor "we have observed a pattern of dangerous consequences to certain knowledge-seeking acts"
00:16 razedDilettante Aye it feels good typing in red again
00:16 stanzicApparati Dude, have you told spenih you're not dead?
00:16 stanzicApparati Because she's been freaking out about that.
00:16 tenaciousTheseus She's banned from the memo, so you'll need to talk to her by PM
00:17 draconianContempt Just so we're shore.
00:17 razedDilettante Why is she banned?
00:17 spacetimeCounselor wait, when did that happen
00:17 stanzicApparati And yes, spacou, we have. And yet you're talking about trying to do those things /anyways/
00:17 tenaciousTheseus A few days ago
00:17 tenaciousTheseus It's to stop sugnon from coming in here
00:17 spacetimeCounselor i am clearly not going to devise tests that involve going crazy from a badly-scripted game disease
00:17 spacetimeCounselor those tests are demonstrably ineffective
00:18 tenaciousTheseus so
00:18 razedDilettante Sugnon? *Please*
00:18 spacetimeCounselor but the idea that certain knowledge just is WRONG TO KNOW or INHERENTLY MYSTERIOUS is just crazy
00:18 tenaciousTheseus What are you planning on doing?
00:18 societalFlame Will you instead devise tests that involve someone else going crrazy?
00:18 razedDilettante SDs might be more powerful than I could ever hope, but they'll never be as stupid as me.
00:18 societalFlame I am surre yourr comrrades would disapprrove.
00:18 razedDilettante And never as willing to die.
00:18 stanzicApparati ...razdil, wtf did you do?
00:19 tenaciousTheseus That would be covered under "stupid"
00:19 spacetimeCounselor i'm not going to destroy people's minds, the negative consequences of doing so generally outweigh the benefits
00:19 razedDilettante WELL haha
00:19 stanzicApparati 'generally'
00:19 tenaciousTheseus Went off for a month by himself like a moron
00:19 stanzicApparati No, I know /that/ bit.
00:19 tenaciousTheseus "generally"?
00:19 stanzicApparati I am trying to get him to explain that bit.
00:19 spacetimeCounselor yeah i figured you'd single out that word
00:19 societalFlame Hhow arre you calculating yourr cost-benefit rratio?
00:20 spacetimeCounselor i haven't figured that out yet- i don't know the costs and risks of testing because i haven't devised any tests yet
00:20 stanzicApparati Yeah.
00:20 tenaciousTheseus Here's a tip
00:20 stanzicApparati Protip
00:20 tenaciousTheseus DON'T
00:20 spacetimeCounselor there's a lot of preliminary research to be done
00:20 stanzicApparati don't, you /moron/
00:20 spacetimeCounselor don't what
00:20 spacetimeCounselor don't seek answers
00:20 stanzicApparati Don't talk to Others, don' talk to Angels.
00:20 stanzicApparati Don't try to break the game.
00:21 stanzicApparati All of which you're suggesting you're going to try.
00:21 stanzicApparati None of these things.
00:21 stanzicApparati Do none of them.
00:21 *** Zuki is now known as vP|Away
00:21 tenaciousTheseus Don't experiment with forces beyond your control
00:21 spacetimeCounselor i won't talk to Others or Angels in ways that have been proven to invite the corruption mechanic
00:21 societalFlame Rrecognize thhat yourr coplayerrs may deem you a potential PK and trry to kill you.
00:21 tenaciousTheseus They will destroy you
00:21 stanzicApparati adfks
00:21 spacetimeCounselor and i solemnly swear that i WILL break the game no matter what
00:21 tenaciousTheseus And anyone else
00:21 draconianContempt If you DO talk to angels, don't bring them back here.
00:21 draconianContempt I had a bad experience with that last thyme.
00:21 tenaciousTheseus DC
00:21 tenaciousTheseus Shut up
00:21 spacetimeCounselor but that i'm not going to pointlessly fuck up an individual session for no reason
00:21 razedDilettante I went into the sewer system in my land that makes up the "Underground" portion. Basically a month of running through there killing everything I found. By the end I was literally sprinting through one-shotting most underlings. I used those life-cupcakes and threw them so they'd infuse me with pulse 50% of the time. I intentionally overpulsed myself.
00:22 spacetimeCounselor tenthe you gotta stop telling people to shut up, like what did dc even try to do
00:22 stanzicApparati Tenthe, no shooshing my moirail, that's my job.
00:22 tenaciousTheseus Fine, whatever
00:23 societalFlame You knew thhe rrules of thhe Underrworrld, I assume?
00:23 stanzicApparati And spacou, there is *no* way you're this frustratingly obtuse just by accident. *No* way.
00:23 spacetimeCounselor of course it's not by accident i've spent considerable time learning the art of rationalism, so that i'm better able to understand the truth
00:23 spacetimeCounselor you ever hear of Less Wrong?
00:23 stanzicApparati Nope.
00:23 tenaciousTheseus Ever heard of insanity?
00:24 stanzicApparati Different world, dude.
00:24 stanzicApparati Different culture.
00:24 razedDilettante I went berserk for a month and used pluckshakes to keep myself going. I did not sleep. WELL as my body gained more pulse my [Chaotic Strength] got too high. You know how certain drugs de-limit your muscles so you have the strength of ten men? Well your body tears itself apart. Blood players usually can't tell because the HP buff from the pulse counters it.
00:24 societalFlame Hhas thhis trruthh come frrom outside sourrces, by ant chhance?
00:24 societalFlame *any
00:24 ghoulishCarnage PMs tenaciousTheseus (Spacetime is obviously going to start spewing Other talk. What should we do? I know you are almost at your limit.)
00:24 stanzicApparati Also, no trying to rationalize the Others.
00:24 spacetimeCounselor what do you mean no trying to rationalize them
00:24 tenaciousTheseus They HAVE no rationality
00:25 spacetimeCounselor you mean no trying to observe evidence about them and make predictions about their behavior based on a coherent mental model
00:25 stanzicApparati Because if you start dripping ichor all over the place, I'm going to have to come over and slap you.
00:25 stanzicApparati *So* hard.
00:25 tenaciousTheseus They are beings too alien to be observed
00:25 spacetimeCounselor i'm not dripping ichor
00:25 stanzicApparati So hard, past you will feel it.
00:25 tenaciousTheseus And then I will rip you to pieces
00:25 tenaciousTheseus Because I have had it up to *here* with the others
00:25 spacetimeCounselor and do you realize what you've just said
00:25 spacetimeCounselor "too X to be observed"
00:25 tenaciousTheseus And every time someone tries to speak in their language my mind rips itself apart
00:25 stanzicApparati It is a thing, dude.
00:25 tenaciousTheseus Yes that is what I said
00:26 societalFlame Thhink of it thhis way.
00:26 stanzicApparati Our brains actually are not capable of comprehending them.
00:26 razedDilettante My HP eventually started going down faster than my pulse was increasing, so I eventually hit 0. I had already found my questbed and had been punching it for a day or two straight. The "punching everything and never stopping" bit of the berserk status locked me onto the indestructible object.
00:26 societalFlame You can only know so muchh about thhem at a given moment.
00:26 stanzicApparati Thus, gibbering insanity.
00:26 spacetimeCounselor that's nonsense
00:26 spacetimeCounselor we can comprehend them
00:26 spacetimeCounselor you already do
00:26 societalFlame Like a subatomic parrticle.
00:26 tenaciousTheseus No we do not
00:26 tenaciousTheseus We know they exist
00:26 spacetimeCounselor you know that they are creepy tentacle monsters in space, in whose presence people go insane
00:26 tenaciousTheseus Any closer inspection results in ichor
00:26 spacetimeCounselor these are observations
00:26 stanzicApparati I comprehend that I shouldn't look at them or talk directly to them, or make deals with them unless I have literally no options left.
00:27 stanzicApparati Like, none of the options.
00:27 *** vP|Away is now known as ventricularPipefitter
00:27 spacetimeCounselor yes, we are all aware of the documented consequences of direct Other observation
00:27 ventricularPipefitter 's computer has exploded!
00:27 stanzicApparati You, however, are basically saying that you're going to go interview one of them or something stupid like that
00:27 spacetimeCounselor what the shit just happened
00:27 tenaciousTheseus Uh?
00:27 societalFlame If you trry to prry deeperr, it is at the expense of currrrent knowledge.
00:27 tenaciousTheseus I have no idea
00:27 stanzicApparati His computer exploded.
00:27 stanzicApparati We're not sure why.
00:27 societalFlame Suchh as thhat thhe worrld exists.
00:27 integratedInfiltrator D;€ what did she do wrong?
00:27 spacetimeCounselor who programs their irc client to display a message in the event of their computer exploding
00:27 ventricularPipefitter has re-entered the memo.
00:28 societalFlame It is a chhat client thhing.
00:28 tenaciousTheseus It comes pre-installed
00:28 stanzicApparati Dude, that just...kinda happens.
00:28 ventricularPipefitter Simmer down, y'all.
00:28 integratedInfiltrator areyouokayross?
00:28 razedDilettante And when my HealthVial emptied my pulse buff went away and so I went into catastrophic negative health. That is to say, my body exploded into a fine mist ALL OVER the room I was in. Also, my quest bed. What I'm trying to say is... I got the tiger! My plan WORKED! HAHAHA!
00:28 stanzicApparati It tells people if your computer stops working, like for reasons --- dude, what
00:28 stanzicApparati you should not explode
00:28 ventricularPipefitter I'm fine. Just bad at ~.ATH.
00:28 spacetimeCounselor grawesome
00:28 tenaciousTheseus What the fuck man
00:28 spacetimeCounselor gross and awesme at the same time
00:28 integratedInfiltrator oh
00:28 tenaciousTheseus That was incredibly reckless
00:28 stanzicApparati no plan should involve exploding yourself
00:28 tenaciousTheseus And you are a blood player so why am I even talking
00:28 spacetimeCounselor except plans that work, like that one did
00:28 *** draconianContempt quit (Quit: Leaving)
00:29 societalFlame Thhat is a terrrrifying way to get thhe tigerr
00:29 stanzicApparati There is no way that plan should've worked.
00:29 spacetimeCounselor just like no plan should involve giving jack noir the ring, unless the plan works, like mine did
00:29 integratedInfiltrator if you wish for more easily-modifiable programs she can provide them for you
00:29 razedDilettante Nope it was perfect.
00:29 integratedInfiltrator she thinks she could also simplify that one
00:29 stanzicApparati Dude, that was a stupid plan too.
00:29 ventricularPipefitter I had a noncompatible DIS.* kernel up to test something for Sage HQ. Let me try that again....
00:29 stanzicApparati In fact, your plan was stupider, spacou.
00:29 stanzicApparati Way stupider.
00:29 ventricularPipefitter I'm not completely stupid, Logs.
00:29 razedDilettante FYI exploding hurts like the dickens.
00:29 spacetimeCounselor you people are preposterously prone to huge sweeping generalizations
00:29 stanzicApparati Because it -- yes, I imagine it does smart a little.
00:30 spacetimeCounselor you really don't have any idea how irrationally you're behaving
00:30 stanzicApparati It's irrational to want to not descend into frothing, ichor-dripping insanity?
00:30 stanzicApparati Gee, I never knew!
00:30 spacetimeCounselor you can't even see how your thought patterns are exactly mimicking those of religious fundamentalists
00:30 spacetimeCounselor and of course nobody wants to descend into insanity
00:31 spacetimeCounselor but insanity is not equivalent to knowledge
00:31 spacetimeCounselor this really shouldn't be something i have to say
00:31 razedDilettante What's wrong with fundamentalism?
00:31 societalFlame Rreligious fundamentalism is a hhuman thhing.
00:31 stanzicApparati Exactly.
00:31 ghoulishCarnage There are some things man was not ment to know.
00:31 stanzicApparati You get nothing out of talking with them.
00:31 razedDilettante Ow...
00:31 ghoulishCarnage *meant
00:31 spacetimeCounselor oh my god you actually said that
00:31 societalFlame Thherreforre I cannot hhave thhat mindset.
00:31 stanzicApparati And it's true.
00:31 spacetimeCounselor you actually fucking said "there are some things man was not meant to know"
00:31 integratedInfiltrator >:€ sorry
00:31 ghoulishCarnage Yeah so?
00:31 tenaciousTheseus Because it's true
00:31 spacetimeCounselor meant by who
00:31 tenaciousTheseus We try to learn more about the Others or the Angels, we go insane
00:32 razedDilettante Man probably isn't meant to understand dividing by zero, SC
00:32 spacetimeCounselor who meant for man to not know about certain shit
00:32 tenaciousTheseus I think I can live in ignorance in that case
00:32 ghoulishCarnage I enjoy rationality.
00:32 spacetimeCounselor man understands dividing by zero perfectly fine
00:32 stanzicApparati Being sane has perks.
00:32 societalFlame Thhen whhat does it equal?
00:32 spacetimeCounselor have you even taken a higher math class
00:32 razedDilettante Well maybe I'm the exception, then?
00:32 stanzicApparati Like knowing that people don't go to heaven if you flay their skin off.
00:32 spacetimeCounselor it equals infinity
00:32 spacetimeCounselor kinda
00:32 ghoulishCarnage ....
00:32 societalFlame Kinda.
00:32 spacetimeCounselor i didn't do /that/ well on the test
00:32 spacetimeCounselor there's different kinds of infinity
00:32 societalFlame You do not know at all, do you?
00:33 razedDilettante Hrm... I've only taken Advanced Algebra... Sorry, Sburb kind of interrupted College...
00:33 societalFlame And whhat was thhat about flaying skin?
00:33 ghoulishCarnage Depends on context.
00:33 ghoulishCarnage If you were to put it in limits
00:33 societalFlame Whho flayed whhose skin off?
00:33 ghoulishCarnage Then the limit would change.
00:33 stanzicApparati Angelkid was going on about corruption being in her coplayers' skins, socfla.
00:33 tenaciousTheseus That was a thing an angelkid said
00:33 stanzicApparati We're..pretty sure she ripped their skins off.
00:33 spacetimeCounselor gross
00:33 ghoulishCarnage However it is merely our prediction of what would happen if we were to manage to find a way to divide by zero.
00:33 spacetimeCounselor corruption is terrible
00:34 tenaciousTheseus Which, by the way, is something you;ll start doing if you try to get close
00:34 spacetimeCounselor dude
00:34 stanzicApparati Yes, which is why we're telling you to /not do the thing you are talking about/
00:34 spacetimeCounselor "dividing by zero" isn't a physical act you can do
00:34 stanzicApparati because no one wants you dripping ichor or tears
00:34 spacetimeCounselor it's an abstract mathematical operation
00:34 societalFlame Thherre arre horrrrorrrrterrrrorrs withh body parrts equal to numberrs divided by zerro.
00:34 spacetimeCounselor also what thing am i talking about
00:34 razedDilettante is dividing by zero something you can do in your heart?
00:34 spacetimeCounselor what are you objecting to, specifically
00:34 stanzicApparati even if I can't understand how anyone can be so deeply stupid as you are. > : (
00:35 ghoulishCarnage Still saying corruption.
00:35 spacetimeCounselor listen do you really want me to say that exact sentence back to you
00:35 spacetimeCounselor oh no wait that wouldn't be accurate
00:35 tenaciousTheseus We are objecting to you trying to find out more about the others or the angels
00:35 spacetimeCounselor i'm perfectly aware of how people can be blisteringly and stubbornly ignorant
00:35 stanzicApparati Your whole plan of "go talk to Others and/or Angels to find out what man was not meant to know, because that will /totally/ work out fine"
00:35 razedDilettante Guys, I say he should go for it.
00:35 stanzicApparati You exploded yourself.
00:35 stanzicApparati You don't get a vote.
00:35 razedDilettante Yes, and it worked
00:35 stanzicApparati Still no vote.
00:36 spacetimeCounselor i'm not going to "go talk to them", i'm going to devise testing plans for determining their nature in ways that won't trigger the game's corruption scripy
00:36 spacetimeCounselor *script
00:36 stanzicApparati ...
00:36 stanzicApparati Right.
00:36 spacetimeCounselor or potentially in ways that will trigger it, like bringing an angel along so the two corruption types cancel out, which is a documented phenomenon
00:36 stanzicApparati Because it's not like anyone who's ever tried this has managed not to go shithive maggots
00:36 stanzicApparati Oh wait
00:36 tenaciousTheseus No no no no no
00:36 stanzicApparati that's totally -- what
00:36 stanzicApparati no
00:36 tenaciousTheseus Do not do that
00:37 stanzicApparati you do *not* combine the two
00:37 ghoulishCarnage ....
00:37 stanzicApparati that's like
00:37 razedDilettante Well the worst that can happen is he'll die a death that goes beyond our comprehension with fearful symmetry unknown to mortals and known only to God and beings of pure chaos.
00:37 tenaciousTheseus They will fight and you will die
00:37 stanzicApparati matter
00:37 stanzicApparati antimatter
00:37 stanzicApparati universes explode
00:37 spacetimeCounselor well yeah obviously doing so directly has a high likelihood of negative consequence that was just an example
00:37 spacetimeCounselor there are ways to manage corruption
00:37 stanzicApparati It's called /hugs/, you idiot
00:38 stanzicApparati And not going near the things known to cause corruption!
00:38 razedDilettante Haha I'm imagining SC hugging an exploding universe
00:38 spacetimeCounselor okay, then we find a way to alchemize equipment with the [hugs] attribute as armor
00:38 societalFlame ...
00:38 stanzicApparati that is not even a thing
00:38 tenaciousTheseus Impossible
00:38 tenaciousTheseus And stupid
00:38 razedDilettante Can even smiths do that?
00:38 spacetimeCounselor i know, i was being facetious
00:38 societalFlame Do I even need to say anythhing hherre?
00:38 razedDilettante Maybe if the hugs were pointy and shot lazers...
00:39 spacetimeCounselor >do that
00:39 spacetimeCounselor good idea
00:39 spacetimeCounselor not related to this project specifically
00:39 spacetimeCounselor just
00:39 societalFlame You mighht as well trry to alchemize a cat's footsteps orr the rroots of a mountain.
00:39 spacetimeCounselor i want to see laser hugs
00:39 stanzicApparati It's your idea, it's clearly stupid. <3<
00:39 spacetimeCounselor oh are we doing insane troll hatelove now okay
00:39 spacetimeCounselor roaaaar i'm super mad at you
00:39 societalFlame It is only insane forr hhumans.
00:39 stanzicApparati Fuck you, there is nothing insane about it
00:39 stanzicApparati It is /perfectly/ logical!
00:40 societalFlame It is a vital parrt of ourr rreprroductive prrocess.
00:40 stanzicApparati And fuck you, if you're not going to take it seriously, just fucking say so
00:40 spacetimeCounselor sure whatever i don't have a lot of experience with your weird cultural traditions maybe it's cool
00:40 spacetimeCounselor but i have a general policy of not getting into romantic relationships with stupid people on the internet
00:40 societalFlame Biologically-based necessities.
00:41 societalFlame You do not see me mocking yourr strrange obsession withh yourr spawn.
00:41 spacetimeCounselor sorry did i hurt your feelings in a non-romantic way there
00:42 societalFlame Actually, I was merrely stating a fact.
00:42 tenaciousTheseus Yeah, you kinda just shat all over troll culture there
00:42 stanzicApparati Look
00:42 stanzicApparati if you don't get quadrants, just say so.
00:42 stanzicApparati "I am a stupid wriggler who doesn't get quadrants". There. Go ahead and say that.
00:42 stanzicApparati And then someone will give you the Quadrant Talk.
00:42 spacetimeCounselor man i can understand the appeal i'm just not interested in learning more about alien social constructs
00:44 societalFlame Hhumans arre aliens. It is expected thhat one would not underrstand.
00:44 ventricularPipefitter ...burrrrn.
00:44 tenaciousTheseus Can we get back on topic?
00:44 ventricularPipefitter If -Tens- is telling you you're being an insensitive jerk, you've got it bad. In other news:
00:44 ventricularPipefitter You guys are being completely hilarious about this and you obviously need more direct experience before you learn how to take the word of other people on faith, re: corruption. Although it ought to be clarified that it's not precisely -knowledge- that is the problem, so much as it is, say, 'communion.' or 'Alignment.'
00:44 ventricularPipefitter These are things that is is spiritually unhealthy to grok.
00:44 ventricularPipefitter By all means, learn all you can about the angels and demons of the world we live in. But take proper precautions, and read the experiences of those who've gone before you.
00:44 spacetimeCounselor THANK you
00:45 ventricularPipefitter But seriously The Others are mostly incomprehensible and if they seem like they make sense it's because you're applying a perceptual filter or they're not telling you the whole story.
00:45 societalFlame And go get a hhug.
00:46 ventricularPipefitter And Angels are going to eat you from the inside out.
00:46 spacetimeCounselor yeah obviously figuring out their deal isn't going to be easy
00:46 spacetimeCounselor but any amount of preliminary research is valuable
00:46 ventricularPipefitter Logica, would you ping me? I want to see if this works.
00:46 stanzicApparati Dude, you're going to get eaten.
00:46 societalFlame Maybe you could speak withh thhe aforrementioned "angelkid"
00:46 integratedInfiltrator ventricularPipefitter?
00:47 societalFlame The chhild itself shhould not be able to sprread corrrruption, trrue?
00:47 spacetimeCounselor i'm going to do my best to /avoid/ being eaten
00:47 stanzicApparati And it's probably going to happen before I end up in a session with you and can smack the stupid out of your head <3<
00:47 tenaciousTheseus A good first step would be to avoid the Angels and the Others
00:47 ventricularPipefitter Yup, there we go.
00:48 spacetimeCounselor haha wow okay i was almost entertaining the notion of being in a session with my weird little fangirl but i'm just laughing too hard now
00:49 *** ghoulishCarnage2 joined #ultimatereward
00:49 ventricularPipefitter And this time....type 'Pipelord' or 'Pipes'
00:49 integratedInfiltrator Pipelord
00:49 integratedInfiltrator Pipes
00:49 stanzicApparati I am /not/ weird!
00:49 integratedInfiltrator and to be certain, pipelord
00:49 integratedInfiltrator and pipes
00:49 spacetimeCounselor gahahaha <3<
00:49 ventricularPipefitter Yep there we go. Ping and ping. Now...do I want it to go for all three of those
00:49 stanzicApparati I'm perfectly normal and rational, you're the crazy one! <3<
00:49 *** LogBot quit (Ping timeout)
00:50 *** LogBot joined #ultimatereward
00:50 ventricularPipefitter Hm. Nah. Only Vitt uses 'Pipelord.'
00:50 LogBot This channel is logged - www.somewhere...
00:50 spacetimeCounselor okay well this has been fun
00:50 ventricularPipefitter And there it pings again.
00:50 spacetimeCounselor but how about i not keep arguing with people who can say "man was not meant to know" without a hint of irony and get the fuck on with prestructuring this session
00:50 ventricularPipefitter Prestructuring?
00:50 spacetimeCounselor oh right
00:50 spacetimeCounselor uh
00:50 stanzicApparati It turns out that the Smoke Knight is him.
00:50 stanzicApparati It was him all along.
00:50 societalFlame I am seeing farr too many spades hherre. Use PMs if you must starre hhatefully into eachh othhers' eyes.
00:50 stanzicApparati Not SD!Him, just him.
00:50 spacetimeCounselor jeez how do i explain
00:50 *** ghoulishCarnage quit (Ping timeout)
00:50 stanzicApparati "Time shenanigans"
00:51 stanzicApparati there
00:51 stanzicApparati done
00:51 stanzicApparati I explained all.
00:51 spacetimeCounselor yeah i thought there was a crazy saccharine doppelganger pulling the strings but it turned out to actually be me from the future
00:51 spacetimeCounselor aka me right now
00:51 stanzicApparati Also, the other one is actually really the Mind player they thought was dead.
00:51 spacetimeCounselor and now i have to fulfill a giant time loop that stretches across an entire session
00:51 stanzicApparati There are no SDs in that session.
00:51 spacetimeCounselor without being a Time player
00:52 stanzicApparati No getting yourself doomed, I can't kick your ass if you're dead.
00:52 spacetimeCounselor this is what got me talking about how stable time loops don't make sense with regard to cause and effect
00:52 *** ghoulishCarnage2 is now known as ghoulishCarnage
00:53 spacetimeCounselor which got people spouting total ignorance disguised as deep wisdom
00:53 spacetimeCounselor which sparked this whole dumb argument
00:53 tenaciousTheseus Well
00:53 tenaciousTheseus Anything that makes you not insane seems pretty deep to me
00:53 stanzicApparati You don't get Time because you are not Time.
00:53 stanzicApparati Also because you're dumb.
00:53 stanzicApparati But mostly because you aren't Time.
00:53 societalFlame Whhat did I just say about spades?
00:53 spacetimeCounselor see this is the vaguely tautological fake wisdom bullshit i was talking about
00:53 stanzicApparati Fiiiine.
00:53 spacetimeCounselor also what are you our auspistice
00:54 tenaciousTheseus Are you
00:54 societalFlame Merrely irrrritated.
00:54 tenaciousTheseus Do you want a kismesis?
00:54 tenaciousTheseus Is that a thing you are shooting for now?
00:54 stanzicApparati Do you understand what a kismesis is?
00:54 stanzicApparati Am I going to have to ask someone to give you the Quadrant Talk?
00:54 societalFlame I am surre hhe just picked up thhe worrd somewhherre.
00:55 ghoulishCarnage Do I need to go grab Unseeing for this?
00:55 stanzicApparati Probably, he's good at the Quadrant Talk.
00:55 spacetimeCounselor well no i'm mainly just playing along with this hilarious line of provocation, i've read up on how quadrants work and i'm not really interested in them generally
00:55 societalFlame I will explain it if I must. Hhow old is hhe?
00:55 spacetimeCounselor although kismesissitude sounds like kind of a good idea depending on who it's with
00:55 tenaciousTheseus "too old to be this stupid"?
00:55 stanzicApparati About my age, I think? 15-ish?
00:56 spacetimeCounselor i'm seven the fuck teen
00:56 societalFlame Thhat is in yearrs, yes? Not sweeps?
00:56 spacetimeCounselor yeah
00:57 *** unseeingAugur joined #ultimatereward
00:57 spacetimeCounselor listen guess who'd rather be concocting a daring scheme to steal the black queen's ring than participating in this ridiculous charade
00:57 spacetimeCounselor and also has two thumbs
00:57 spacetimeCounselor this guy
00:57 spacetimeCounselor wait shit i don't know how to do a thumb emote
00:57 societalFlame Thherre is some literraturre I am allowed to send to you. It is not as complete as thhe literraturre allowed for trrolls, but it will suffice.
00:57 spacetimeCounselor like how even
00:57 tenaciousTheseus d'_'b
00:57 stanzicApparati PMs spacetimeCounselor : (Really? Because I was more mature than you within, like, a week of entering the Medium. And I was /thirteen/ then! <3<)
00:57 spacetimeCounselor no dude i don't want your sordid literature i have more important shit to worry about
00:57 spacetimeCounselor also yes good
00:58 stanzicApparati Like hell you do. You're gonna have lots of time to read on the meteor-ride down.
00:58 societalFlame sends spacetimeCounselor ImportantThingsForSerfs205.pdf
00:58 spacetimeCounselor reposting from pm out of dubiously insincere spite:
00:58 spacetimeCounselor stanzicApparati PMs spacetimeCounselor : (Really? Because I was more mature than you within, like, a week of entering the Medium. And I was /thirteen/ then! <3<)
00:58 spacetimeCounselor LAFFIN'
00:58 stanzicApparati ...
00:58 *** ventricularPipefitter is now known as vP|Away
00:58 stanzicApparati I look forward to running into you in a future session.
00:59 societalFlame You arre technically not a serrvant species, but neithherr arre you in contention withh thhe Empirre.
00:59 stanzicApparati Also, hi, unsaug.
00:59 spacetimeCounselor anyway i can tell when i'm no longer involved in a productive conversation
00:59 societalFlame You arre thherreforre qualified forr thhat.
00:59 spacetimeCounselor gonna olly outy

[psychromaticKampher]

[Rangoon]

Wha...I jus...How...? My brain...my S7OMACH...7hey hur7 so much...

((I'll be honest, I really don't know how to respond or react to that. I assume that was an actual conversation that happened over IRC, but I just...Did you ASK them to react like that or something? Because it's either that, or they are REALLY good at roleplaying the narrowminded. Or they are REALLY fucking committed to staying in character. Good attempt at trying to get a rational, real-world discourse going though; assuming that everyone was staying in character, it really goes a long way to showing just how being stuck in SBURB and being in there for most of one's young adulthood can color how you perceive and interact with the world. I'm an IRL physics major and I REALLY wish I had been in the chat when that was going down. Would've been fun.))

[surfaceSilver]

((I'm the one who played societalFlame. It was all in-character for me.))

[lucidChthonia]

((Let me guess. HPMOR reference?))

[stanzicApparati]

I am still going to make you sit down and listen to the Quadrant Talk, if it takes having to glue you to the damn chair. Or I'll get unsaug to give it to me and PM it to you, dumbed down so your cracked thinkpan can understand it.

Also, one? It's not 'deviant behaviour', it is actual possession. As in "Others gank your body and use it as a meat-puppet and if you're lucky, you just end up with horrible scars on your soul afterwards". And no one was unreceptive to rational thought. Going and talking to Others or Angels isn't rational, it's fucking suicide.

Two, while it's nice to see that you're getting the hang of blackflirting, stop doing it out in public. Unless you've got some exhibitionist streak I need to know about?

Also, someone named "spacetimeCataclysm" showed up after you 'ollied out' and spewed something that looked kind of like part of a ~ath code that included the words '[OLLIE OUT]'. You trolling, future-you/corrupted-you, or someone faking being you?

[spacetimeCounselor]

((Hahahaha, yeah, this was all spontaneous- I figured people might have some bleedover of their own suspension of disbelief into their characters, but it was really surprising how well everyone behaved exactly like they would have if my viewpoint was actually incomprehensible to them. HPMOR is definitely a thing I've read, although I suppose I wasn't so much referencing it as utilizing its thought patterns- Less Wrong and the Sequences are really great and everyone should read them.))

Gehehehehehe, really? You really still don't get it? You've learned exactly nothing from all this, and your explanation for my behavior, best as you can figure, is "he is literally possessed by evil tentacle monsters from outer space". Think about how you came to that conclusion, and then think about whether that makes sense.

also are you really chewing me out for blatantly displaying the alleged obsidian hots for someone
are you really saying that
let me check which one of us was the first to actually type out the spade symbol into the irc- oh look
what a surprising result
who is the crazy exhibitionist now, kiddo

and no i got nothin' about any cataclysm guy, but he can't possibly be me because i would never leave off the Y on "ollies outy"
who the hell do you think I am!?!?

[lucidChthonia]

((OOC NB: I know quite well what you're talking about, as apparently evidenced by the density of reference below.

I have nothing against LW or any associated properties; the following is fictional.))

Uh...

I think I'm going to hand this story over to scrollbackAntacid (may he rest in pieces), former admin of Transamphibian.

Hey, so you might've noticed that opening up either Transamphibian's web gateway or your usenet reader is causing computer(s) to explode.

First things first, configure your Usenet reader to stop synchronizing with all Transamphibian sites immediately, at least until you've installed the filter that I will provide the .rar password for embedded somewhere in this post. Secondly, if you've seen any of realityConsequentialist or the rest of his session (infiniteCuriosity, followingTruth, evidentialBayes, equalizedIdeas, argumentativeHonesty, observableOrder, minimalistRazor, subordinateUnderstanding, nitpickingModule, toleranceExactitude, scholarlyArchivist), please contact either me or scovilleSaucepan as soon as possible. And thirdly, make sure you record that LessWrong or any of its offshoots are now considered major memetic hazards.

With that out of the way.

Given my listing of the players above, I think it should become obvious what just happened. These people were regulars on transamphibian.sburb.gamebreaking, and the suspicion of us admins is that they may have attracted the attention of the Others.

So let me explain.

In their universe, a little-known foundation called SIAI partnered with Skaianet, in order to train the aforementioned Players to follow a highly idiosyncratic moral/ethical system called rationality. For the sake of this discussion, I will consider it large-R Rationality, as several of its techniques are specific to Bayesian Conspiracy acolytes. More detailed explanations of what this is, as archived by its members, are available on SburbCite, which still has a mirror available at (HTTP) archivelinks.prototypetowers.net or (FTP) ftp.al.prototypetowers.net. By the way, the password to the filter file is "prototypical".

The Players in question essentially set out to attempt to systematize all knowledge of the Game, crowded onto Gamebreaking, and were actually investigating how exactly Corruption worked on people, and how it could be canceled out. (They're why we know about the hug treatment.)

I guess what happened next was that they bit off more than they could chew, and not only got themselves corrupted but also the entire damn server. (And me, as well. My scouter exploded in my face and I was... indisposed... for a good few minutes before my coplayer figured out what was going on. I'm fine now, anyway.)

As far as we know, their session is null and has been for the entire time, so there's no Bilious in question here, just the server. We're saving everything we can, but we're having to scatter it across servers, as uploading our backups of the server configuration just gets the server corrupted all over again. Those Horrorterrors sure are persistent.

Antie out.

The takeaway is quite simple.

Historically, tampering with the powers that be using your specific Rationality system has resulted in catastrophic results.

I'm only going to warn you once. If you fail, it's your own damn fault.

[spacetimeCounselor]

...that's one case. They must have... made a mistake somewhere, or something. Do we have records of their findings, so we can figure out what went wrong? There's only one example there, if something went wrong then we don't have any idea what to attribute it to, there's no reference pool. Maybe... maybe it went wrong because they tried to exploit an ability like Heartlines as a corruption protection, or maybe they alchemized something with unpredictable corruptive properties, or any number of possible missteps... you can't label a system of thought as a dangerous hazard, especially when you don't know the actual cause of their failure! And we know that what they were doing was at least worthwhile, they discovered the hug-based protection process, they've saved people's lives!

But you know. You're right. If I fail, it's my own damn fault. Not the fault of large-R Rationality, not the fault of some memetic hazard, not the fault of curiosity, not the fault of truth- the takeaway is indeed simple. It's "don't fuck up".

I don't intend to fuck up.

[tenaciousTheseus]

Here, let me give you the best way to not fuck up:
Step 1) Do not have anything to do with the Angels or the Others
The end.

Really, it's that simple.

[mislaidLullaby]

Dude. Do you know WHY we don't do stuff like this?

It's because we have quickly come to associate this line of thinking with Corruption flareups. Which are generally associated with death. We're not being irrational, we are trying to avoid dying.

Does that make an iota of sense to you? Like...At all?

[stanzicApparati]

Jul 18, 2012 14:07:26 GMT -5 spacetimeCounselor said:

There's only one example there, if something went wrong then we don't have any idea what to attribute it to, there's no reference pool.

We know that whatever the hell they were doing, it involved getting up close and personal with Others and probably Angels too. We really don't need to know more than that - that's enough to tell anyone sane that dicking around with this stuff is like trying to juggle lit Molotov cocktails; it's only a matter of time before it just blows up in your face. And when shit with Others or Angels blows up, it tends to take out whole sessions.

Jul 18, 2012 14:07:26 GMT -5 spacetimeCounselor said:

you can't label a system of thought as a dangerous hazard, especially when you don't know the actual cause of their failure! And we know that what they were doing was at least worthwhile, they discovered the hug-based protection process, they've saved people's lives!

[/quote]
Guess what, genius: we totally can! Sure, they discovered that hugs clear corruption - and they also nulled out an entire session. That's a whole section of paradox space that not only doesn't exist any more, but as far as Time/Space is concerned, never has. Hugs save lives, sure - but a whole session isn't exactly what I'd call a fair price for that piece of knowledge.

Jul 18, 2012 14:07:26 GMT -5 spacetimeCounselor said:

But you know. You're right. If I fail, it's my own damn fault. Not the fault of large-R Rationality, not the fault of some memetic hazard, not the fault of curiosity, not the fault of truth- the takeaway is indeed simple. It's "don't fuck up".

I don't intend to fuck up.

Which is why you're ignoring everything everyone tells you about safety and talking about going and poking things that are known to leave permanent scars on your soul (in the case of Others) or just eat the damn thing whole (in the case of Angels).

And before you start going off on "oh, souls aren't real" or something like that: they totally are, that's what a Shiny is. It's the bit that makes you "you" (and it is unsettling as hell that there's a whole Aspect that can just yank it out and mess with it).

Also, re: exhibitionism - I might've been the first one to declare my feelings openly, but you were blackflirting for the whole damn conversation. And I at least moved it to PMs - you're the one who showed the chat what I said and then posted a whole damn log.

[spacetimeCounselor]

Jul 18, 2012 18:35:30 GMT -5 mislaidLullaby said:

Dude. Do you know WHY we don't do stuff like this?

It's because we have quickly come to associate this line of thinking with Corruption flareups. Which are generally associated with death. We're not being irrational, we are trying to avoid dying.

Do I really need to say "correlation does not imply causation" out loud? (not that it's impossible that the game's corruption mechanic actually targets certain thought patterns- the game does enough weird mind shit as it is.) If you're so stoked about not dying, I suggest not playing Sburb- something people seem to be putting suspiciously little effort into around here.

Jul 18, 2012 18:58:32 GMT -5 stanzicApparati said:

-snip-
We know that whatever the hell they were doing, it involved getting up close and personal with Others and probably Angels too. We really don't need to know more than that - that's enough to tell anyone sane that dicking around with this stuff is like trying to juggle lit Molotov cocktails; it's only a matter of time before it just blows up in your face. And when shit with Others or Angels blows up, it tends to take out whole sessions.

-snip-
Guess what, genius: we totally can! Sure, they discovered that hugs clear corruption - and they also nulled out an entire session. That's a whole section of paradox space that not only doesn't exist any more, but as far as Time/Space is concerned, never has. Hugs save lives, sure - but a whole session isn't exactly what I'd call a fair price for that piece of knowledge.

-snip-
Which is why you're ignoring everything everyone tells you about safety and talking about going and poking things that are known to leave permanent scars on your soul (in the case of Others) or just eat the damn thing whole (in the case of Angels).

And before you start going off on "oh, souls aren't real" or something like that: they totally are, that's what a Shiny is. It's the bit that makes you "you" (and it is unsettling as hell that there's a whole Aspect that can just yank it out and mess with it).

Also, re: exhibitionism - I might've been the first one to declare my feelings openly, but you were blackflirting for the whole damn conversation. And I at least moved it to PMs - you're the one who showed the chat what I said and then posted a whole damn log.

Well this is a doozy. When you are attempting to find a cause of the effect -everyone gets corrupted-, you do actually need to know more about their methods if you're to safely do the same general thing they were. There's a difference between juggling molotovs and things like throwing molotovs, or arranging molotovs by color, or dissecting molotovs, etc.
And, lessee- you "totally can" label a system of thought as an inherently dangerous hazard? If you'd like to make this kinda claim then think of something more convincing than "yeah huh", or else I'll be obliged to respond with "nuh-uh", and nobody wants to go down that road. You also claim that discovering and sharing a reliable countermeasure against corruption isn't worth the nullification of a session- how many lives have been saved by their discovery, compared to their twelve? And I'm not sure the term "null" is clear, here- I was under the impression that a null session was simply one that had failed to produce a Reward, not one that was erased from existence.
What else- lessee, more accusations that I plan to throw caution to the wind and do things specifically proven to invite corruption, and- ooh, souls. Well, the "shiny" = soul hypothesis seems to be contradicted by the existence of inanimate shinies, but sure, I'll accept the premise that there's a materially distinct representation of your consciousness generated by the game. Doesn't tell me anything but "this is dangerous", which, you know, is kind of obvious.

and hahahahaha wow good job mistaking ordinary impatience for a legit desire to have an alien hate girlfriend, can you say "projectiooooon"

I plan to do some dangerous stuff, kiddos. Telling me how very dangerous it is doesn't actually serve to deflect me from this path, because "dangerousness" is a statement about probabilities, which disappear when sufficiently analyzed. I'd say "I know what I'm doing", but that's not as accurate as "I'm going to know what I'm doing before doing things". So, hey, step off with the crazy protectionism, and for the love of god if you're going to describe something as heretical then use the word heresy already.

[psychromaticKampher]

[Rangoon]

Ok, I 7hink I'm over my brain 7umb1e 7here. 1emme see i7 we can ge7 our auspisce7ice on:

SC, I 7hink 7ha7 you have some de7ini7e grievances wi7h 7he game which, as 7ar as anyone o7 us here are concerned, is comp1e7e1y norma1. I7 is SANE o7 you 7o be experiencing 7hem; i7 means 7ha7 you're no7 so inured wi7h 7he game as, say, 7he mods, who have (as 7ar as I can 7e11) been 1arge1y ou7side o7 7heir na7ive rea1i7ies 7or as 1ong or 1onger 7han 7hey were in 7hem and s7i11 7hink abou7 7he wor1d as wou1d a scien7is7: wi7h 7he idea 7ha7 i7 is comp1e7e1y cohesive and comprehensib1e. I myse17 am no7 so removed 7rom rea1i7y no7 7o empa7hize and see where you're coming 7rom.

Cha7, as I read more o7 7he 7AQ, i7 is apparen7 7ha7 wha7 you associa7e wi7h "gamebreaking" are 7hings 7ha7 make a given session unwinnab1e, in 7he sense 7ha7 7he base progression o7 7he game is "broken" and canno7 be comp1e7ed in some7hing resemb1ing sequen7ia11y 7o bring you 7o 7he nex7 session, meaning you die. However, 7rom wha7 I can 7e11, 7he origina1 in7erpre7a7ion o7 "gamebreaking" regarded 7inding 7he boundaries o7 7he game and circumven7ing 7hem 7o make i7 easier 7or 7he p1ayers 7o 1ive, or a7 1eas7 no7 die as o77en, which is wha7 SC might be ge77ing a7 wi7h his "Ra7iona1i7y" sys7em here.

7ha7 said, I 7hink 7ha7 7he Cha7 has some compe11ing poin7s 7ha7 migh7 warran7 a second 7hough7 on your end, SC. Whi1e decreasing mor7a1i7y ra7e in 7his game wou1d be grea7, 7he price o7 knowing migh7 be 7oo high. Besides, any scien7is7 in 7he rea1-wor1d wor7h his sa17 wen7 7hrough YEARS o7 academic deve1opmen7 be7ore ge77ing 7o 7he rea11y gri77y bi7s regarding wha7 made rea1i7y 7ick. Give i7 some 7ime, a 7ew sessions o7 experience maybe, 7hen revisi7 7his 1ine o7 7hough7.

Persona11y, I don'7 have enough experience here myse17 7o be a we11-regarded source o7 re7erence. As a ru1e o7 7humb though? SA has been a good he1p 7o me 7hrough my session 7hus 7ar, and 1is7ening 7o 7he advice o7 7he guys wi7h more sessions under 7heir be17 has kep7 me a1ive, so I'm inc1ined 7o side wi7h 7hem, Bu7 7ha7's jus7 me.

[stanzicApparati]

Jul 18, 2012 21:25:09 GMT -5 spacetimeCounselor said:

If you're so stoked about not dying, I suggest not playing Sburb- something people seem to be putting suspiciously little effort into around here.

<snip>

and hahahahaha wow good job mistaking ordinary impatience for a legit desire to have an alien hate girlfriend, can you say "projectiooooon"

Yes, because "not playing the game" is totally an option that won't kill you. Oh, wait. No it's not. Anyone not a player dies, even if they end up in a session. Players who try to avoid playing the game end up dead. These are known fact, dude.

And I am not mistaking impatience for kismessitude. There's just no way you can be this aggravating without it being blackflirting.

[tenaciousTheseus]

Jul 18, 2012 21:30:23 GMT -5 psychromaticKampher said:

[Rangoon]

Ok, I 7hink I'm over my brain 7umb1e 7here. 1emme see i7 we can ge7 our auspisce7ice on:

SC, I 7hink 7ha7 you have some de7ini7e grievances wi7h 7he game which, as 7ar as anyone o7 us here are concerned, is comp1e7e1y norma1. I7 is SANE o7 you 7o be experiencing 7hem; i7 means 7ha7 you're no7 so inured wi7h 7he game as, say, 7he mods, who have (as 7ar as I can 7e11) been 1arge1y ou7side o7 7heir na7ive rea1i7ies 7or as 1ong or 1onger 7han 7hey were in 7hem and s7i11 7hink abou7 7he wor1d as wou1d a scien7is7: wi7h 7he idea 7ha7 i7 is comp1e7e1y cohesive and comprehensib1e. I myse17 am no7 so removed 7rom rea1i7y no7 7o empa7hize and see where you're coming 7rom.

Cha7, as I read more o7 7he 7AQ, i7 is apparen7 7ha7 wha7 you associa7e wi7h "gamebreaking" are 7hings 7ha7 make a given session unwinnab1e, in 7he sense 7ha7 7he base progression o7 7he game is "broken" and canno7 be comp1e7ed in some7hing resemb1ing sequen7ia11y 7o bring you 7o 7he nex7 session, meaning you die. However, 7rom wha7 I can 7e11, 7he origina1 in7erpre7a7ion o7 "gamebreaking" regarded 7inding 7he boundaries o7 7he game and circumven7ing 7hem 7o make i7 easier 7or 7he p1ayers 7o 1ive, or a7 1eas7 no7 die as o77en, which is wha7 SC might be ge77ing a7 wi7h his "Ra7iona1i7y" sys7em here.

Yes, we know what gamebreaking actually means. However, trying to break the game in the latter definition ends up breaking the game in the former definition. Due to Others/Angels, corruption, and insane players who kill everyone and destroy essential devices

Also, mortality rates is not how many people survive, it's how many die. I believe you meant decrease mortality rates, not increase them. Although, funnily enough, if SC keeps going, the mortality rates will increase.