psychromaticKampher
New Member
Wha7 have I go77en in7o...Oh, SHOO7 uh...Heads up 7or RANGOON %\0\%
Posts: 19
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Post by psychromaticKampher on Jul 18, 2012 23:09:28 GMT -5
[Rangoon]
7ixed 77
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psychromaticKampher
New Member
Wha7 have I go77en in7o...Oh, SHOO7 uh...Heads up 7or RANGOON %\0\%
Posts: 19
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Post by psychromaticKampher on Jul 18, 2012 23:32:05 GMT -5
[S7i11 Rangoon]
7he under1ying poin7 I am a77emp7ing 7o make is simp1y 7ha7 7here is a high probabi1i7y 7ha7 7his conversa7ion is 1ooping worse 7han someone having a manic episode. We are 1osing sigh7 o7 purpose and in7en7 and speaking be7ore 7hinking. Bo77om 1ine, I jus7 7ee1 7ha7 some basic considera7ion is in order, ra7her 7han ei7her par7y 7hrowing 7he o7hers views away ou7 o7 hand.
7ada, 7ha7's a11 I have 7o say on 7he ma77er.
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Post by mislaidLullaby on Jul 19, 2012 13:30:18 GMT -5
Do I really need to say "correlation does not imply causation" out loud? (not that it's impossible that the game's corruption mechanic actually targets certain thought patterns- the game does enough weird mind shit as it is.) If you're so stoked about not dying, I suggest not playing Sburb- something people seem to be putting suspiciously little effort into around here. Until I googled them, I had no idea what correlation or causation were, so basically yes, you ARE going to have to say them out loud to me. What you're doing now appears to be trying to discredit what I am saying by discrediting me- Nice move there, by the way. You have failed to address the things I have actually said.
We have come to mentally link a certain line of thinking/acting with a thing that is incredibly undesirable. As such, we respond by trying to steer people away from said line of thought. We're not being irrational. We are working with survival instincts we've been blessed with. It's the same reason why I still respond badly to things linked to Clowns- For my world, this was reasonable, as they had a habit of killing people. It is a simple matter of conditioning.
I am going to ignore your comment about 'Don't play' because as you are a sane and rational person, clearly, who should be more than capable of comprehending why this can be taken as offensive.
In short- We are concerned because your behaviour is similar to things we have come to associate with players who go on to fall to corruption. If you are intent on doing these experiments, please just be damn careful, okay? I don't want to see somebody else lose themselves.
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Post by fabulousFreelooter on Jul 19, 2012 13:42:41 GMT -5
if someone who has never been a time player might venture a guess at the original topic~***
while time loops are incredibly difficult to understand, they do have a source of input and cause~*** and that is the player~***
if you consider the timeline from the time player's perspective, they have one continuous existence~*** like a long piece of string that they walk~*** the problem comes from the outside perspective where it seems that the string loops and tangles and is chopped and doubled back on itself~***
for the time player, he or she has a reason to do whatever causes the time loop, and thus eventually uses the information they have gathered and their own will to perform an action~*** so the cause is the events, and the effect is what they do, and then they keep walking their straight-to-them path of string~***
it is just that, due to the mysterious working of time within the incipisphere, some of the information they have that causes their actions is given to them by themselves~***
and of course since they use their free will, they can do whatever they wish to~*** however, those paths where they do not do what would lead them to their choice are not viable within the game, so they lead to doomed timelines~*** so it appears that a time loop must always be completed in this logical paradox method, by the very rules of the game~***
in fact, it may be one of the very few hard rules of sburb~***
if any time players wish to correct me on any aspects of this post, please do~*** i am predominantly a life player, after all, and your workings are quite mysterious to me~***
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Post by stanzicApparati on Jul 19, 2012 14:51:04 GMT -5
That's a fairly decent explanation of my Aspect, fabfre. More straightforward than what I can manage...but Mage, so. Yeah.
Have I mentioned that I'm really not loving being a Cryptic class? I'm hoping I can at least get something that'll let me be straightforward, next session.
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Post by nobletiger on Jul 21, 2012 4:08:01 GMT -5
I'm with you, SC. And I feel you. I kind of wish I'd been in that conversation to back you up, but then again it looked painfully idiotic.
The thing about rationality that no-one seems to have mentioned here is this: human brains (and probably not other species' brains either) don't do it perfectly.
Rationality is the actual art of getting things right. For serious: if I said that I was going to use rationality to test stuff regarding, and figure out the workings of, the Others, this is what it would mean: "I'm going to think, in a way that gets things right, about the Others. If I realise there's something I could know, and finding it out wouldn't be incredibly dangerous, then I might do that, because it would mean I'd get more things right."
(I don't plan on going anywhere near them very soon, so don't accuse me of recklessness please)
That's pretty much the whole truth, and what I think SC is planning to do. It's definitely what I'm planning to do, except I'm pretty cautios by nature so I won't dare do stuff that may be rational. It's a flaw of mine.
Now, the thing I said above about human brains not doing rationality perfectly: by our nature, confirmed by experience, we don't get things right all the time. We have managed, through theorising and maths and stuff, to lay down some rules about rational thought (that is, some rules about getting things right). Even then, most of us can't do it very well, especially not "in action", meaning at the same time as we're actually out there, doing stuff. And that might well be the time-scale on which it matters if you're planning to, say, figure out the Others.
That doesn't stop some people from trying. From thinking "I know how to be rational, I've read Less Wrong" and doing something reckless. And then failing to be a perfect Bayesian intelligence when it matters. And if I were to hazard a guess, that's what's been observed. When mislaidLullaby says "We are concerned because your behaviour is similar to things we have come to associate with players who go on to fall to corruption". When people say that they're being rational in not going down those lines of thought because others who have have been corrupted. That's what they're talking about. People wanting to get things right, being confident in their ability to get things right, and then in the end not getting things right, and dying for it.
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Post by horrorTerror on Jul 25, 2015 10:10:10 GMT -5
So I did some quick checks.
Uh....Super secret detail that might be inconsistent with the proper timey answer because I'm-a-gibbering-eldritch-monstrosity-who-naturally-is-temporally-unclear, but stable time loops and other *weird time shit* that rely on no true origin but do not spam doomed timelines that do all that stupid shit like the ectobiological circle and the metal twelves and twelves-on-paper (known as *paradox cores* by the horrorterror scientific community) are 'usually' encoded on Skaian birth into the alpha timeline explicitly to mess with the Time player. Sburb simply puts it there on temporal establishment for no damn reason, then hems you in with doomed timelines and middle fingers. Like, you guys brought it up that the game simply put it there for no raisin reason, and then promptly decided to latch onto the less reasonable possibility.
Because Sburb is really a *dick*. Yes, that is the serious explanation. Whatever cosmological intelligence is processed by Skaia is simply an asshole and encodes pointless time loops into the alpha for no reason (except maybe brainwashing or player suffering? better reread that essay) and probably did it for shits and giggles.
The heavy level of abstraction of most things in Sburb prevents material decay from being handed back in time over and over.
tbh if you're fine with losing like half the point and getting these twisty blocks of bestfits and madness, grab a series with a pretty decent universal translator, then alchemize it with frogs, weird bugs, and dreamglass moss until you've got a translator that is not easily corrupted, like I have lying around. Angelsongs are fucking weird but it gets broodfester across pretty decently as long as the person or Other speaking it is not trying to convey any inherently eldritch concepts or other things you have no words for.
And for iael's sake, YES we are trying to learn how to think on a player level to better get into your brains like the game that birthed you. Our alienity is only majority: those who have walked down the path of Rain for too long and too hard may begin to realize how much of us is really just different stimuli and different spatiotemporal hosts. The body parts made of division by zero are just our *manifolds* to *infinity*, *the positive and the negative*, don't look too hard at those it tends to induce corruption.
Corruption is partially the shittily coded buffer between us or them corrupting you and the game trying and failing to reject it, and partially the actual corruption we or they are inflicting.
In all honesty, players are confusing. I've seen Mind players with less sense of agency about the inevitable than you people. And let's be honest, weird time shit is probably rigged to explode on being doomed or something.
Whether or not it's magic depends on how much you know and how deeply you're embedded in the kaianshifts along Skaia.
Inherently mysterious knowledge is usually infohazardous and erases its own existence.
Laser hugs require a more abstract concept of the hugs. Try taking a regular picture of two people hugging and have a Smith of Rain or somebody get on that.
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